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Elena Bridgers's avatar

Thank you for writing this Darby! I teared up a little bit because I agree with so much of what you are saying and because you engaged so respectfully with what I wrote. It’s good to feel less alone. Certainly the tone of what I wrote was more antagonistic than what you have written here (that’s just my style I guess) but I meant well and I don’t think I truly deserved the level of backlash I got on it. I just want to have this conversation! I wholeheartedly agree that we need a fifth wave of feminism that centers all of the things you mention. But I guess I would also push you further on articulating what that really looks like, practically. The one part of this where I think I hesitate a bit is when we invoke this idea of choice and creating a system where people are more free to choose their own paths. The problem is that I don’t actually believe in human free will - and even if you aren’t ready to get in board with that because most people aren’t, we need to acknowledge that different policies or cultural ideals strongly influence people in one direction or another. So for instance, if our project is centering breastfeeding and motherhood we might choose to do things like compensate mothers who stay home or reduce working hours, but if our project is more equal representation of women in the workplace then we might choose to put that money into affordable daycare. Each would have major consequences on the lived experience of families that has little to do with choice. Could we do both? What effects would that have? Or do we need to radically restructure the whole capitalist system so that both men and women can stay home more or be closer to their babies? But also, capitalism works pretty well and I don’t think we want to throw it out the window entirely or stop people who want to be girl bosses from doing so? There are so many tensions here and I’m wary of the idea that we can just support everyone doing what they think is best for them.

Charles Olney's avatar

Wonderful article, which makes me glad I didn't spend the time today writing a similar piece which would have immediately been completely redundant!

My only real supplemental point is that in addition to being problems with capitalism, I think many of the 'problems' (certainly many of the ones articulated in the Elena Bridgers piece) with feminism are actually just problems with patriarchy. These get reformulated as problems with feminism (for creating rising expectations which then provoke patriarchal revanchism) because it's much less dangerous to criticize people who are willing, even eager, to listen to your concerns than it is to criticize people who just genuinely don't care about your concerns.

Which also speaks to the point you make that feminism has been very successful. Part of its success has been the ability to ebb and flow over time. The most popular 'brand' of feminism in any given moment is often a little bit out-of-touch and out-of-date--fixated on the problems that felt most acute to the previous generation. But this is what happens to any successful movement. The power of feminism has often been its capacity to keep evolving as new voices emerge and new concerns are articulated and folded in.

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